Inspiring stories of success, joy and refusing retirement from renegades rocking life after 50.

The Renegade Boomer Podcast Episode 9 with Dr. Judith Sherven

Featuring Dr. Judith Sherven

Episode 009 Crush The Fear Of Being Fabulous

Ready to go fishing in your childhood? That’s a question today’s guest, Dr. Judith Sherven, often asks her executive coaching clients. Why? Because Judith understands that many of what I call the innocent misunderstandings we have about our capabilities and self-limiting beliefs stem from things said to us as children. Problem is we aren’t kids anymore. But we are often still being run by an adult interpretation of something we latched onto as “truth” before we were old enough to understand the lasting impact of those old messages and beliefs. Today we explore all that and more, including this fun fact: *She appeared in the very first Star Trek episode!* And she has the photo to prove it. Beam me up Dr. Judith! You’ve simply got to see it. So much fun!



Favorite Quotes

“I can’t imagine why people want to retire and do what? Sit around playing golf on Wednesdays and Bridge on Fridays? Why? When you are capable of continuing to enhance the world in whatever way that you do.”

Favorite Moments from the Interview

Truly, the whole thing! Dr. Judith is incredibly inspiring and radiates a kind of joy that lovely to be around. Her perspective on aging and meaningful work is impactful.

Why the Renegade Boomer Community will love it

Because anytime you hear uplifting and inspiring stories about 80-year-old experts making a huge difference in the world…it is well worth your time to listen and learn!

The more we realize age is something that can enhance our impact, the more we can embrace this chapter of our lives as something powerful and valuable!

Listen up, as Dr. Judith Sherven and I explore the “windmills of your mind” and how by thinking intentionally, you can change your life.

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View Transcript

[00:00:00] Tina: Hey, beautiful Renegades! Thanks for joining us today for the Renegade Boomer™ Podcast, and I’m just really honored and excited to have today’s guest, who’s Judith Sherven. She’s a PhD. Dr. Sherven, I presume. And she has so many things that she’s done. It’s like kind of amazing.

So she’s told me it’s really okay to say this cuz she’s still very active as an executive coach at 79 and says proudly turning 80 in December. I love it!

And she coaches with her husband Jim, and she’ll have to help me at how to pronounce his last name because he uses his last name. But they’re bestselling authors of at least eight books that I know of.

And she’s a clinical psychologist with over 40 years of experience as a psychotherapist, an executive coach.

She’s been an expert featured on 3000 radio and TV shows, including Oprah, The View, CNN, MSNBC, you know, everything, right? And she has as of this moment, I think, around 614,000 followers on LinkedIn. And so, I’d love to talk about that a little bit too.

And she and her husband were both actors back in the day before they started doing what they’re doing now.

So all that to say, welcome. Welcome to the podcast today.

[00:01:09] Judith: It is my pleasure to be with you. I’m so thrilled that you are doing this. And advancing the issue of women need to keep going strong until it’s over.

[00:01:19] Tina: Right! Kicking and screaming all the way.

[00:01:21] Judith: Why give up?

[00:01:24] Tina: Yeah. I love that. And just even in your intro, I mean, you showed me something before I turned on the recording, so let’s just start there because back before you started all this, you actually were an actor in Los Angeles, in Hollywood. Right?

And by the way, I forgot to tell you, I’m from California too. I was born in Pasadena. So we have that little neighborly nudge there. But you showed me a photo. Would you hold it up for everyone to see right now?

[00:01:49] Judith: That’s me in the blue outfit. So that’s me with William Shatner. That is the original season of Star Trek, meaning it didn’t exist before that season.

[00:02:04] Tina: Yeah.

[00:02:06] Judith: And I played a nurse. I had a few lines. I got to play around with William Shatner that was really fun on set. He was well-behaved.

[00:02:16] Tina: Oh, that’s good to know.

[00:02:18] Judith: I wanna be careful with play around.

[00:02:19] Tina: Yeah, that’s right. All above board. Beam me up, Scotty. And beam me up, Judith. Right?

[00:02:25] Judith: Right.

[00:02:26] Tina: It’s so fun. That’s just so fun. I mean, I just love how we can pull those threads of the past into what we’re doing now. And I think it’s just such a great example that we can change along the way at any time. We can decide, make a decision, that we’re gonna do something new and different.

And so one of the things I wanna be sure we have a conversation about today is just the views of the world about what’s expected at a certain age as far as retirement. And as you know, I’ve got the Anti-Retirement Movement. And to me what that means is just, let’s redefine what that means. How do you feel about that, Judith?

[00:02:59] Judith: Oh, totally. 100%. I can’t imagine truly, I can’t imagine why people want to retire and do what? Sit around, you know, playing golf on Wednesdays and Bridge on Fridays? Why? When you are capable of continuing to enhance the world in whatever way that you do. For instance, what you do with copywriting, you are helping people advance their careers, advance their marketing. You are being helpful and you’re having fun.

[00:03:29] Tina: Yeah, that’s true.

[00:03:31] Judith: The coaching that Jim and I do now is wonderful fun to help people. They’re all younger than we are. They don’t care about our age at all. At all. At all. And because we’ve been around a while, we can see things about how they limit themselves.

And these are executives in tech companies largely. And that’s what they want. They want help being nudged forward to advance themselves, to advance themselves as leaders, and they have a wonderful time. We play with them. We laugh. And we’re very serious. And we give assignments. So we direct them to do things differently than they’re used to. And we’re all having a wonderful time.

[00:04:17] Tina: You know, I think the humor element of that is so, so very, important as well. This isn’t all grim seriousness. We’re all getting older, you know, this kind of stuff. And what I hear you saying is that both you and your husband, Jim, bring a great deal of wisdom just from the experiences that you’ve had in life to carry forward.

You know, I always say, you can’t create your future from your past. You create your future from your future, but you draw those threads from the best of what you’ve been able to accomplish in your life, things that have been meaningful to you and meaningful to others, and weave them in as you continue to grow.

I mean, I kinda have a feeling you and your husband are probably lifelong learners. Would you say that that’s the case for?

[00:04:56] Judith: For sure. Absolutely. When we met on a blind date 36 years ago, we realized we had both been professional actors and why did we quit? And what we came up with was the term, “the fear of being fabulous”. And really, in terms of what you just said, the fear of learning more about who we could be in the world. In that case, in terms of being actors. But it also, for each of us, we look back on it, we think actually it was the right thing to do, was to step back, rethink who we wanted to be in the world. I went back to school. I got my PhD in psychology after that, and then went into private practice and was learning tons.

What I learned in school wasn’t nearly as important as what I learned in practice working with clients. So it has been ongoing learning.

[00:05:52] Tina: So the word fear, actually, I really wanna talk about that for a minute because one of the things I discussed with the people I work with is kind of like this hierarchy of where we are in our consciousness, our awareness of our own emotions and how we’re feeling.

And at the very bottom of that, if you think of it like a ladder, is fear. The word fear. And that fear, because we don’t know what else to call it, it’s something we can all experience. And a lot of times, it comes from messages we heard when we were very young, or experiences we had in the past. Then we start connecting them into anxiety and limitations and those types of things.

Have you found that to be true when you’re working in the corporate settings with people that others might say, from the outside looking in, it’s like, “Wow, they’ve got it all. They’ve got it all figured out there. They’re the CEO, the CFO, the chairman of whatever,” you know, have you found that to be a common experience?

[00:06:40] Judith: Well, yes, and one of the questions that we often ask is, “Given what you’re talking about, may we go fishing in your childhood?” And we’ve never had a single person say no.

[00:06:50] Tina: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:51] Judith: And we’ll ask, “What did you learn probably before the age of 10, maybe younger than that, what did you learn about having to be a perfectionist?” Or, “What did you learn about having to play second fiddle,” in this case, might be, “to the CEO?” “How did you learn to keep your opinions to yourself unless they agree with people that are older than you are?”

Whatever it might be that they’ve already shared with us is a problem now, sure enough, 99% of the time, they say something like, “Right. Sure. My mother absolutely insisted that I aim for perfection.” Whatever it might be. And we help them unravel what is still stuck in their unconscious.

[00:07:43] Tina: Right. Exactly. I love that. Just that aspect that, you know, if we think of ourselves, I mean, I personally believe we come from divine source. Outside of ourselves, there’s something greater, but yet we’re all part of that. Right?

And so, those neural pathways have been created. Then they turned into like superhighways of where our brain, I call it our fallback position, you know, our habits of thought, just come forward into whatever we’re doing now. Do you agree with that?

[00:08:10] Judith: Exactly. And because it’s stuck in the unconscious, and one fact that I wanna share with everybody on your podcast is that until the age of seven in the Catholic church, I wasn’t raised Catholic, but my husband was.

[00:08:23] Tina: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:23] Judith: In the Catholic church, the age of seven is considered the age of reason.

[00:08:27] Tina: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:27] Judith: Why? Because literally, it’s not until our brains are seven or eight, nine years old, can we reason, can we evaluate, can we rethink reality. So everything that comes into our brains when we’re 4, 5, 6, 3 in terms of anybody saying, “You are stupid. You’re a clumsy little boy. How dare you to talk to your mother that way. You calm down,” whatever may have been said, it’s all stuck in the unconscious where it has never been evaluated, never been reasoned with unless it is brought to awareness in adult life to then be rethought, reevaluated, and hopefully, parked in our memory bank, not running how we live our lives now.

[00:09:25] Tina: And the thing is, we don’t have to go searching the memory bank, right, unless we choose to. I mean, we can literally divert our thinking to a different thought, right? We can hold onto a different thought. We can learn to think it differently, and that’s actually creating those neural pathways in our brain that become established as, “Oh, this is how you think it. Okay.” Because wherever we’re showering the attention on this thought in our brain, you know, it’s like a signal that this is important, this is important, this is important. This is what Judith always thinks. This is what Tina always thinks, right? And so it just kind of comes popping up to the surface and so, we can create a new pathway.

[00:10:02] Judith: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. That’s why my husband and I created this program, “Overcoming The Fear Of Being Fabulous”.

[00:10:09] Tina: Right.

[00:10:10] Judith: It holds so many different exercises to create those new pathways to overcome the fear of letting yourself really be excelling in what you do.

[00:10:22] Tina: Well, I love that because I think sometimes when we talk about this kind of a topic, maybe people are thinking, “Oh my gosh, this is gonna take years to unearth all this stuff and go back to my childhood.” But really, there are ways to kind of leapfrog forward with that as far as how your brain works.

[00:10:35] Judith: Exactly.

[00:10:36] Tina: So, I mean, you can have turnarounds pretty quickly. What do you think about that as far as like, at first, it’s more of a conscious choice to think it differently, to interpret this event differently? And then does it become more natural in the sense of it’s just more automatic?

[00:10:53] Judith: It becomes habit.

[00:10:54] Tina: Yeah.

[00:10:54] Judith: Exactly. As you keep executing this new way of being in the world, it’s so much better. It’s more fun. It’s more effective. And eventually, it becomes habit. It becomes who you are now.

[00:11:08] Tina: Yeah. And I love that too because who you are is your identity. And so when I’ve worked with people that have been so, you know, we’re talking Anti-Retirement Movement, what do I do? You know, it’s kind of like 50 and beyond where people think, well I’m just gonna retire and you’ve said it earlier, well are you just gonna sit around?

And it’s maybe part of the time. But I mean, the way I see it is really this blending of what do you choose to do? What is it you would like to create for yourself? You know, be the co-creator of where you’re going now in this part of your life. And we call it, you know, second chapter, third act, and all these different things, but it’s really just your life, right? Only your life.

And so, when I’ve worked with individuals, I’ve often found that that identity of who they really are has just gotten so submerged in who they were supposed to be, who they were told to be, who other people told them they were, that they kind of lost their way, right? And how do you feel about that?

Do you see that a lot, that it’s just kind of like, “I don’t even know what am I.” Am I a therapist, a teacher, a father, a son, a mother? But aren’t we all really more than that when it gets right down to it?

[00:12:12] Judith: Absolutely. I think we’re much more than that. We don’t see a lot of what you’re describing in terms of the people we work with now.

[00:12:20] Tina: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:20] Judith: We’ve been doing this executive coaching and corporate work now for a couple of decades. But back when I was in private practice, then I did see a lot more of what you’re talking about of people who had restricted their thinking about who they could be, who they could be individually, and who they could be in a marriage, whether it was the husband or the wife.

[00:12:41] Tina: Right.

[00:12:41] Judith: So, I think what we see in working with our executives in these tech companies is they are all ambitious. They’re creative. They want to move along. I can’t think of one of them that has talked with us about retirement.

[00:12:57] Tina: Right.

[00:12:58] Judith: Male or female. And wonderfully, of course, there’s a lot of attention now on equity in terms of bringing women into the workplace and helping them advance, which is fantastic. It’s really exciting to see.

[00:13:15] Tina: Yeah, very. And as you get older and we all are, right? And the thing about social security, and I’ve mentioned this before, but when I did a little research on it, you know, it was established in 1935 here in the United States when the life expectancy was like 59 or 60, something right around that range. And yet, social security wasn’t supposed to begin until you were 65. So, it was kind of like, “Hmm, hardly anybody’s gonna get there.”

Yet, they became the social norm to retire by 65. And then it started to be mandated in some companies, you know, or even sooner, you were starting to be escorted out the door. And that’s still happening today.

And so then we get into kind of the whole area of ageism, right? And it’s kind of the last acceptable “ism” of just, I don’t know, I feel like almost all of us that are past 50 have experienced in some way that little patronizing moment, that thing where someone calls you mom or grams, you know, in a group or you know, like kidding you, you know, this kind of stuff. Or you feel kind of marginalized because people are making assumptions because, “Oh, that’s your age. Therefore, that must mean you’re no longer viable as far as creativity and intelligence.” What are your thoughts about that? I mean, you’re living it. You’re walking the walk right now. We both are.

[00:14:26] Judith: Well, I would encourage anybody who is mistreated for their age to immediately correct whoever said it. Now, sometimes, it may be our own interpretation. I remember when Jim and I were on retainer at LinkedIn, which was a few years back, we were there four days a week, all day, four days a week. It was great fun. We were doing coaching and teaching speaking, teaching management skills, all kinds of things. And we were waiting for an elevator with a young man that we didn’t know. The elevator door opened, and he gestured and he said, “Ma’am,” and I got on the elevator first, and I thought, “Should I take that as something he’s saying because I have white hair and I’m obviously older than he is. Or is he just being polite?”

[00:15:15] Tina: Right. Yeah.

[00:15:16] Judith: And I decided he was just being polite.

[00:15:18] Tina: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:20] Judith: And I didn’t need to take it personally as I’m an older woman. No, I didn’t need to. He was being a lovely young man, saying, “Ma’am.”

[00:15:28] Tina: Yeah. I actually appreciate manners, you know. I still do.

[00:15:34] Judith: Yes, exactly.

[00:15:35] Tina: Yeah. And so we don’t need to blow it all out of proportion. And it is sort of an internal check-in. I think that’s really a good point. You know, just like smiling, “Well, thank you.” Or just like maybe be a young woman with a stroller and they’d say, “Ma’am,” let you get in first, that kind of thing.

[00:15:50] Judith: Right.

[00:15:50] Tina: Yeah. I think we don’t need to get so prickly about all of it that everything’s an affront and everything is meant for this, you know, other meaning.

But isn’t that also the beautiful way our brains work? Because we get to define our reality.

[00:16:04] Judith: Yes, exactly. And you’re reminding me back during the pandemic, Jim and I were going to Costco and we got near the carts, and a young man, maybe 40, saw us coming and he said, “Ah, I’m not going to allow you to get your own cart. I’m gonna help you. At your age, I would like to take care of you.”

[00:16:32] Tina: What’d you do?

[00:16:33] Judith: And again, you know, were we going to get a offended? Instead, we said, “Thank you so much! How sweet of you.”

[00:16:42] Tina: Well, there is a thing, you know, really, because the core of all of this for all of us to create a better world is love. Right? At the very center of all of it is that we can share that.

And it took me a long time because of things of my experience growing up of realizing that that kind of love was a real thing. I think I used to feel like, “Yeah, all right. People say, “Oh, I love you.” You know, you don’t even know me,” you know, this kind of stuff. But there is this really just a spiritual core of love that we treat each other with kindness and respect.

Funny you should mention Costco cuz I was thinking it right before you said it cuz we were there yesterday. And this is the time of year they get the big beautiful ceramic flower pots in and I’m just kind of like always have- They’re a great deal. They’re beautiful. They last forever in the Arizona heat. And they had just gotten some in and it was like, they’re very, very heavy.

So my husband, who is older than I am but is still very strong also, put the pots in the cart and we cardboard around so they wouldn’t get chipped and I had a few smaller items. And so I’m going to the check stand and cuz he wears hearing aids, he went to the hearing aid department to get them adjusted. So I was by myself at the check stand, and the checker was like, the cashier was like, “Did you put those in there yourself?” And I went, “Yeah!” And he started laughing and I said, “No, my husband did it, but I did get the water,” the 36 bottles of water in the bottom. I said, “Never assume,” you know.

And we just had a joke about it. But it just was funny to me, you know. Our Costco moments where people are being helpful.

[00:18:10] Judith: Right. And he was being kind.

[00:18:12] Tina: He was being kind. And the woman that was assisting him in the cashier was like, “There’s guys in the parking lot. There’s men in the parking lot that can help you get ‘them out.” And I said, “Actually, my husband can do it. But thank you so much for thinking of us,” you know.

[00:18:24] Judith: Isn’t that lovely?

[00:18:25] Tina: Yeah. Yeah. It really is. I mean, it just makes you smile really. And so, with this, let’s talk about how people can reform their retirement time because, you know, it doesn’t have to be that you’re staying unless you choose it to be. And this is the point I wanna make is that it’s individual decision, but you should be able to make that decision.

There should be that flexibility in how we start reinterpreting what does retirement mean. Does it mean go sit in the La-Z-Boy and just sort of sink into the cushions and lose all verve for life and all because, you know, to keep our brains active, we need to keep doing new things also, right?

[00:19:02] Right. And also stay active. As you said, is it sit in the La-Z-Boy and watch television?

[00:19:07] Tina: Right.

[00:19:07] Judith: Which is what Jim, my husband’s mother did. And she became depressed.

[00:19:13] Tina: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:14] Judith: Lonely. Her husband had died, Jim’s father, and it was not good for her. Did she do a little crocheting? Yes, but that wasn’t enough for her.

[00:19:26] Tina: Right.

[00:19:26] Judith: On the other hand, and I wish I remembered the name right now, but there was a psychoanalyst, a leader down in Los Angeles years ago that worked until she died at 103.

[00:19:39] Tina: Yeah, I love that. I love stories like that. I read one about a very long-lived Japanese doctor. I think he lived to be 106. It was not too long ago when he passed away, but he had an appointment booked that went five years hence from his age. He was still practicing in his 90s and 100. He was still seeing patients, and he was just planning for, it could be five more years, you know, “I’ll schedule out for 2025,” or whatever, right?

[00:20:04] Judith: Exactly.

[00:20:05] Tina: And so, I know there’s another book coming out right now, I think it’s Becca Levy. But I know that she’s written a book that just caught my attention, the topic even because they’ve done research that shows that our expectation about our lifespan and our ability to continue to live productively and actively and happily does affect our longevity in a positive way, if you’re thinking about it in a positive way. If you’re thinking, “Well, this is it. I’m done. I’ve had it,” you know, well, you can create that reality, unfortunately-

[00:20:37] Judith: Right.

[00:20:38] Tina: -for yourself as well. And so, you know, I know there’s another book that’s called “You Can’t Afford The Luxury Of A Negative Thought”. And I didn’t even know there was a book called that. I used to say that and then realized there was actually a book titled that. But that really is true because what we are thinking, we are creating energetically, physiologically, emotionally, we’re creating our reality with our thoughts.

[00:21:01] Judith: Yeah, absolutely. And our thoughts are governing how we eat, how we exercise, whether we’re physical in terms of walking, going to the gym, or not, sitting in that La-Z-Boy, letting our muscles deteriorate, telling our body it’s over.

[00:21:18] Tina: Right.

[00:21:19] Judith: A friend died last year at 84. I mean, he got himself to 84, but he had sunk into that La-Z-Boy and watching stuff on his computer.

[00:21:32] Tina: Yeah.

[00:21:32] Judith: And he was essentially dying and then his gallbladder gave out and it was over.

[00:21:36] Tina: Yeah. Yeah. And so with the new way of retiring, I mean, you could move from the office, the corporate structure into being more entrepreneurial. You could take creative powers that you have, like maybe you ran a multimillion dollar dental practice and now maybe you’re selling the dental practice and now you’re going to consult on your terms. See? And so that’s how I see this, is for each person being able to define and find that pathway to how they’re gonna express that.

For you and your husband, you are still going fully in with your executive coaching, with your programs, writing books. I work with people individually and mentoring. I have copywriting programs. So, you know, we’re still very actively but with on our own terms, you know. You’re basically self-employed, correct?

[00:22:21] Judith: Right, exactly.

[00:22:22] Tina: So you’re entrepreneurial. I’m entrepreneurial. And because really, I had someone ask me in an interview the other day, “Okay, well all these people took early retirement and they’re fleeing the workplace and now we have a labor shortage. Do you think we can lure them back in, retirement age people back in?”

And I said, not unless you got an engraved invitation on a silver platter. Because if they just go with a resume or a CV thinking, you know, I will be hired, there is ageism at work of being marginalized from just trying to go the traditional route if you wanna continue to work. And so, the alternative to that is create it for yourself. Take that expertise and create something.

Now, I’m not saying everybody needs to work full-time. I don’t work full-time. I mean, I’m very busy but, you know, it’s on my own terms. I’m sure that you and your husband experience the same thing. If you wanna have a long day, you do. And if you don’t, you don’t. And you know, that’s how it works.

But there’s many different ways a person can blend this going forward. And maybe it’s going to be that they don’t need to make the money. They’re blessed in the fact that they don’t need to make more money, but they want to still have impact and give back and carry forward. Or maybe they wanna mentor or they want to build schools in other communities or whatever it might be. Or many still need to make money. There’s nothing wrong with that.

[00:23:35] Judith: Right.

[00:23:35] Tina: Making money is a good thing, you know. And so, do your programs help people find their way through that as well? Like other alternatives for what they could do?

[00:23:44] Judith: It’s not, so no. The programs are not so much about alternative things they might do, but it’s more internal in terms of getting out of their way, removing the negative head talk that wants to yammer at them about you can’t do this, who do you think you are? All of that kind of imposter syndrome kind of thing, opening up their ways of seeing themselves in a new light so that they can open their vision of what they wanna do going forward and enhancing their self-respect, their self-esteem. That’s what our programs are really geared for.

[00:24:23] Tina: And that is the most important part. I should kind of reframe how I was asking that, I think. Because really, it’s not, “Here’s how you send emails and here’s how you build an online business.” It really is an inside job.

And, you know, you can buy programs up one side and down the other of how to do this, that, and the other. But if you’re not doing that inner work, if you’re not making that shift in your own identity of where you see yourself in life and the potential for you, it’s all just gonna roll off like then water off the back of a duck kind of a thing because you haven’t made the shift internally.

[00:24:55] Judith: Exactly. You haven’t revisioned who you actually are and taking back identity from how you were raised to see yourself. In our programs, there’s a lot of work to be done to let yourself leave home. Leave those allegiances and forbiddens that you were raised with, whatever they might be that are getting in your way.

We call it the love grip because what you learned when you were a child, you called love.

[00:25:25] Tina: Yeah.

[00:25:26] Judith: And it may not have been good for you. It may not have helped you see who you really are. And now, at whatever age, it’s time to see yourself more accurately with your gifts, with all of your life experience and as you say, begin to look around and what do I wanna do now?

Maybe it’s something you’re already doing and you wanna just keep doing it, or you’re advancing it in some way or changing it entirely.

We have a friend who’s I’m hoping will be a guest on your program who is in her mid 60s. And she has a lifetime of experience as a marketer. Well, she’s now in the marketing department for the Cattlemen’s Association and learning all, and she’s a wonderful cook.

So she’s learning more about how to cook meat and how to market meat. Now, anybody that’s a vegetarian is not gonna be interested.

[00:26:29] Tina: Right.

[00:26:31] Judith: But she’s not a vegetarian and she’s having a wee of a time. And one of the things that she says is, “And people say to me, ‘Thank you for your age. I really expect you to teach me more about how to do my job because you’ve been around longer.'”

[00:26:50] Tina: Isn’t it funny how- I love the origins of words and how we interpret words. I mean, if I do include copywriting now in my services, it’s a very, very high level as far as how that’s being produced and all of that, but it’s the word age, isn’t it funny how we can have a different connotation of it? Like when we say age and we’re referring to little kids, it’s kinda, “Oh, look what age they are,” and, “Oh my gosh, look at this.” And then when we start saying it about ourselves, it starts to be age, right? It’s like the, “Age!” And the word aging, you know, the connotations that go with that.

So when people say, “well, how come it’s Renegade Boomer?” Well, part of the reason is because my mobile office brand is actually called Renegade, on the superficial level. But on the deeper level, it’s reinterpreting even what a renegade is. And it’s someone that’s challenging, you know, like gonna rebel against the status quo and even in our own minds, right? Like changing how we define those words for ourselves, what those words feel like for ourselves and how fabulous we actually are, right?

[00:27:50] Judith: Yes, yes, yes. Exactly. How fabulous we actually are and what we can do. Just last month, Jim and I were up in Vancouver, Canada doing an all-day offsite for one of the teams that we work with. And there was a moment when I thought, I wish this were on film. I wish the world could see this 81-year-old man and 79-year-old woman running this all-day offsite. We’re on our feet most of the day, teaching about the unconscious and how it can limit, in this case, one of the things we were working with them about was money. How do they think about money-

[00:28:31] Tina: Big one. Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:28:33] Judith: -in the unconscious? What did they learn about money when they were young, etcetera. And it happened to be Jim’s 81st birthday. They had a cake for him. They sang “Happy Birthday”. And I thought, I wish the world could see this, these two very competent- We’re both attractive.

[00:28:52] Tina: Claim it and own it.

[00:28:54] Judith: That’s right. Claim it.

[00:28:55] Tina: Cause you’re fabulous.

[00:28:57] Judith: Thank you. Absolutely. And former actors, Jim was a former actor also, long before we met each other. Because we really do want to help- And I’m so thrilled that you’re doing this podcast. We really do wanna help people open up their possibilities of what they do in their older years that is not limited by age so that they can be even more fabulous.

[00:29:21] Tina: Exactly. Experience the fabulosity of. I like that. Fabulosity. Let’s use it.

[00:29:29] Judith: There you go. And like what you are doing, I love, for instance, I love the background and what you’re wearing.

Ordinarily, people would say, “Oh, it needs to be cleaner. You can’t have all that color. There’s too much, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.”

[00:29:44] Tina: Yeah, yeah. Blah, blah, blah. That’s what I say too.

[00:29:46] Judith: Exactly.

[00:29:46] Tina: Cause see, this is part of my identity, right? And for me, there’s energy in color, and everything has a meaning. I had just an amazing call with someone yesterday where- Well, I won’t go into it right now, but it was just even something in the background here became a topic of conversation that had layers of meaning and actually was kind of like a roadmap for that person, kind of a marker of, “This is confirming something.”

And so, you just never know how your own self, bringing your own fabulous self to the party, so to speak, is going to impact someone else that’s just needs to hear exactly what you have or exactly what you’re gonna say, exactly how you’re gonna say it.

And I’m thinking, I would love to have been at that offsite with the two of you and observed all of that because I’m pretty sure there were no black balloons involved or funeral dirges or, you know, anything like that over the birthday.

[00:30:38] Judith: No, no. Quite the contrary. Exactly. It was all very up, up and away, and we’ve been asked to come back up and do more. So, we will. We thought Vancouver was fun.

[00:30:48] Tina: Oh yeah. That’s fantastic. So let’s talk a little bit about the massive army of people you have following you on LinkedIn because it’s 615,000 or something like that. And I really wanted to talk about that for a minute because I think for our viewers also, here you are, you and Jim, you’re freely discussing you’re gonna be 80 in December, he’s already 81, and you’re the life of the party, I’m sure. And you have so much wisdom between the two of you, x2, you know, the exponential growth of that is more than x2, right? It’s an exponential growth that happens from that.

So what are some tips you have then for people using LinkedIn effectively for their business? Because there’s a difference between having these massive numbers of followers, like on Instagram or whatever, and then absolutely, it’s just a superficial thing. I know it’s more of a vanity metric, and there’s a difference between that and really impacting people’s lives like the two of you are doing. So do you have any tips about how you are engaging on LinkedIn?

[00:31:44] Judith: The two tips I would offer are to make sure, two things, well, three things now, to make sure that your profile is up to date and that you have a photograph that is relatively contemporary. I have to own up my photograph’s probably 12 years old, but it’s not 50 years old. You know, I’m not posturing as somebody young.

Make sure that your profile is there and also to publish articles. Back when Jim and I got started there, they were limiting who could be an influencer, who could publish articles.

[00:32:21] Tina: Creator. Right.

[00:32:22] Judith: Right. They’ve changed that so that anybody can now publish articles. So we would encourage you to write, and they don’t have to be long, but meaningful articles with links in the articles that take people either to your website or to a sales page, wherever you want people to go.

That’s the best way, you know, with great headline and use your marketing techniques, use your copywriting in doing all of that work on LinkedIn. So that’s my strongest advice in how to use LinkedIn.

[00:32:58] Tina: Does that continue to be a great resource for you as far as cultivating relationships that turn into clients?

[00:33:05] Judith: No. Our clients come from referrals.

[00:33:07] Tina: That’s the best one of all. Absolutely.

[00:33:10] Judith: You know that too.

[00:33:11] Tina: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. That’s really strong. So, in the last few minutes of this conversation, it’s been a fabulous one, and I’m sure we’ll have more in the future, but I wanted to touch on some reasons why more than just, well, you’ll make some money or whatever, why doing some kind of meaningful work and activity past 50 into your 60s, 70s, and beyond, what that does for you beyond the obvious, which could just be, “Well, I’m still making money,” or something like that. But there’s other layers of purpose and benefit from it. So what do you feel about that?

[00:33:43] Judith: Well, the strongest, the very strongest feeling I have about that is it keeps you feeling young. You are not telling yourself every day, “Oh, I don’t have much to do today. I better clean out a closet.”

[00:33:58] Tina: “Let’s fold towels.”

[00:34:00] Judith: “Let’s fold the towels.” Exactly. Quite the contrary, you are involved in the world in whatever way that you are actively using your intelligence, your humor, your personality to affect other people, whatever way it may be, that is meaningful, and it keeps you young at heart, young in mind, young in spirit, and it makes your days meaningful.

That is my strongest feeling in terms of the work that we do. We have relationships with people. They matter to us. We care.

We have a client that got long COVID. We have not met with this person in months, but we text every so often to check in because it bothers us that this person got caught with terrible long COVID.

It’s not a downer. It’s something we care about that keeps us alive in the caring of it.

So that’s my strongest feeling why to not retire, to stay alive in a meaningful way. And I’m using the word young in some way that I wanna make sure I don’t- I’m not saying young like 20, I’m saying young like alive and filled with energy, filled with spirit, filled with a life that has meaning just like yours does.

[00:35:26] Tina: Oh, thank you. Well, you know, we let inspiration guide us also. The word literally means inspire is to take in oxygen, to give life. It’s a life force. And so if we allow inspiration to lead us as we get older, at any time of our life, but especially instead of falling into preconceived notions of what that supposed to look like, we let our own inspiration guide that path and shine the light on it, it gives more life to us and it gives life to those around us.

And I love that you’re talking about how you and your husband truly care about the people you serve. Because when, you know, we talk about marketing and selling and all that, but really what it is, is serving. That’s really where this comes from. And when you can do that with authenticity, people feel it, right? They can tell if it’s real or not, right?

And you just elevate everyone that you come in contact with and what a legacy that is as far as continuing with what your work is. So, I just love that, and I thank you so much for being here today, and I’d like you to share how people can find you and Jim and the work you’re doing and how they can track you down.

[00:36:29] Judith: Well, if they want to track me down personally, my email is Judith @ Judith and (A-N-D) Jim (J-I-M) dot com. It’s really simple.

[00:36:40] Tina: Yeah, I love that.

[00:36:41] Judith: I would encourage anybody who is feeling held back to take advantage of one or two of our programs. One of them is and the other is Being Fabulous In Business, which is more dedicated toward the business world.

So depending on what people are wanting to work on, neither one of them are expensive. They are both audio programs, so you can use them walking, whatever you might wanna do. You don’t have to be on camera, but it will help you dig deep into what may be holding you back and open up your life in ways that you can’t imagine.

[00:37:27] Tina: That sounds fantastic and I just appreciate you so much and the gifts you are of the world. Thank you so much for being here today and I’m looking forward to our next conversation.

[00:37:35] Judith: Thank you so much. It’s been my pleasure. This has been a joy.

[00:37:39] Tina: Thank you.

Copyright 2023 Tina Lorenz

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